Leadership Sales Performance Sales Technology

The Foundations of Sales Effectiveness

I just lately recorded a second wide-ranging podcast on the foundations of sales effectiveness with Michael Webb of Sales Performance Consultants Inc.

We continued to develop the subjects we had discussed in our preliminary podcast, and this time we turned our attention to the need to find methods of eliminating the avoidable errors that so typically forestall gross sales individuals from attaining their full potential.

Inevitably, we turned to the structural and cultural foundations of profitable gross sales organisations – and the explanation why (despite the large sums of cash invested) so many CRM implementations fail to deliver the hoped-for enhancements in performance.

We also discussed some of the essential foundations of any scalable sales “process” – together with the essential importance of recognising the widespread characteristics of our ideally suited clients. I hope you take pleasure in listening to our discussion…


Right here’s an edited transcript of our dialog:

Michael Webb: Good day, that is Michael Webb. Some individuals give attention to reaching determination makers and promoting value, other individuals give attention to gathering knowledge, analysing cause and impact. In this podcast, we give attention to each. On promoting value and utilizing knowledge to tell us the place the worth is in order that we will create wealth for patrons, our corporations, and ourselves.

That is the Sales Course of Excellence Podcast, and I’m thrilled to have Bob Apollo with me once more. Bob, thank you for coming.

Bob Apollo: Michael, thank you for inviting me once more. I’m very glad to have joined you as we speak.

Michael Webb: And just for many who won’t have heard the primary podcast we did; are you able to give us a 30-second overview of what you do?

Bob Apollo: I run a sales effectiveness consultancy firm based mostly here in the UK. However last yr, our shopper footprint stretched from Salt Lake City to Mumbai. One of my objectives this yr is to make that footprint a bit of bit smaller. We assist our shoppers to put together an built-in program combining training, techniques, processes, and supplies to assist all of their salespeople do a simpler job of partaking with their clients.

Michael Webb: Tremendous. So I, undoubtedly, assume from my research, you’re in the vanguard consultancies in course of effectiveness, gross sales effectiveness, because you’re connecting multiple elements. So once we had our first discussion, we type of ended that dialogue and you have been making some observations about CRM software program, and the way it has changed through the years, and the necessity for, as you just pointed out, this integrated strategy a spread of elements.

So we agreed to have one other dialog and, this time, to focus especially on CRM, and software program, and the position of software program. So to sort of begin this out, I’ve a kind of a strategic definition question to start out us out just to make it possible for we’ve defined our phrases, and we’re speaking about the same factor.

So there’s this group of customer-facing individuals in any company, they’re often working really onerous, they have numerous sorts of expertise in sales, and advertising, communications, relationship constructing, negotiation, coaching, and servicing customer, and so forth. Now when you’re the leader, and you’re liable for the performance of the company and, specifically, for this gross sales advertising servicing workforce; in order that’s the context.

Now, for those who’re the leader of that company on the finish of the day, finally, Bob tell me, what are you pursuing or wanting to take care of, achieve, or improve, a minimum of at a high degree, variety of a results-oriented degree? What are you making an attempt to take care of, achieve, or enhance as a pacesetter?

Bob Apollo: Both on the particular person and collective degree with a gaggle of individuals with a variety of gross sales duties, I need to accomplish a very clear, and customary understanding of who our best clients are, what the key problems we clear up for them are, how we deliver options that enable them to realize enterprise benefit, and I need to make sure that this info is extensively shared and disseminated within our organisation.

So in flip all of that essential understanding and insight might be shared again with both our present and future clients. I feel actually that’s a matter of making sure that we create a learning surroundings, that we remove sources of waste and of error, and that we recognise that a lot of this info is actually within the heads and in the expertise of our colleagues in the front line. And it’s solely actually by accumulating and re-sharing that frontline expertise that we will maximise our progress.

Michael Webb: All right, so I’ve a follow-up query, and then I’m going to ask you a clarification question. So the follow-up question is that very same individual, that leader, what do you eager to keep away from or decrease?

Bob Apollo: Nicely, I feel it will depend on where I’m ranging from. But, definitely, I might need to be reducing or eliminating the silos of info that generally bedevil giant organisations. I’d wish to avoid any of the members of my workforce making repeatable, avoidable errors.

I’d in all probability be less concerned concerning the pursuit of perfection because I feel that’s a very troublesome problem in any complicated gross sales setting. But definitely I’d want us, collectively and progressively, to get rid of the predictable things we must be avoiding or not doing in an effort to get the absolute best results each for ourselves and for our clients.

Michael Webb: Okay.

Bob Apollo: And also you want knowledge for that. You need to have the ability to determine patterns of performance and behaviour, and you need to be able to draw conclusions as to the relationship between totally different knowledge factors.

Michael Webb: Yeah, okay. So let me ask a clarifying question, and it’s going to sound like I’m pushing again a bit of bit, and I am, however I feel you’ll agree with the purpose why. Since you just stated we’d like knowledge and proof to be able to work out what to stop doing, right?

Bob Apollo: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Michael Webb: And so the query is how have you learnt? How have you learnt that you must lower the silos? Why are you reducing the silos? Why are you needing to avoid errors, identical to why do it is advisable know higher what clients want? Why do you’ll want to take what’s in individuals’s head and synchronise it around the workforce?

I assume what I’m making an attempt to say is that an organisation is a system, and it consumes assets, and it produces worth. So you could have enter, and you’ve got output, and on the finish of the day, you’re making an attempt to increase the worth that it produces, and scale back the assets that it consumes. Would you agree with that?

Bob Apollo: Broadly talking, I don’t assume that’s the one objective, however definitely going to be one of the high-level aims for an organisation.

Michael Webb: Okay, so we haven’t outlined what worth is. So what different goals would there be apart from that?

Bob Apollo: Nicely we’d for instance need to improve our share of our present market, we’d need to penetrate a brand new market, we’d need to change the stability or the shape of our business. Now all of those, finally, level in the direction of the creation or the destruction of worth, however there are some particular methods during which we’d select to take a look at those objectives.

Michael Webb: Yes, okay. So yes, I see why you stated broadly speaking. So now, I imply at a excessive degree then, the aim is to increase the value, the revenue, and scale back the fee, and the waste. And so in the event you get previous that, you then get into, “Well, gee, this is the system, what are the elements or the factors that affect it, those outcomes that you desire?” So you mentioned some of them, I feel. Is there like a framework that you simply repeatedly use if you’re excited about those causes and effects which are in a gross sales and advertising organisation?

Bob Apollo: There are a selection of indicators which may I feel provide a framework. One of the things I’d look for in any shopper engagement is the readability with which we understand our perfect buyer profile. And that perfect buyer profile isn’t just about we promote into this demographic, or that geography, or into that position; it’s extra concerning the sort of organisations we now have managed to be most profitable with.

And there’s a better correlation, once you take a look at this stuff, between structural and cultural elements which I’ll acknowledge are more durable to measure – however no much less necessary for that – than there is a correlation between our give attention to this or that business. And that’s just one probably foundational piece of info.

Michael Webb: Positive, so hold going, what are some of the other foundations?

Bob Apollo: Another one is what widespread issues we’re choosing to attempt to clear up for the client. Now, this suggests of course that we are an organization whose mission is to deliver considerably replicable solutions, and that we’re not making an attempt to craft a brand new and distinctive answer for each particular person buyer.

If we’re an organisation that’s making an attempt on a replicable and somewhat predictable foundation to determine and handle widespread buyer problems, we’d like readability about, “what issues did our customers come to us with, and what outcomes did we successfully enable them to achieve?” And to your level about value, of course, I feel one of the important thing parts is the diploma of worth that they allow their clients to realize as a consequence of their involvement.

Michael Webb: Okay. Anything?

Bob Apollo: With regards to processes, I’ve all the time discovered it extra useful to have the ability to diagnose the place we succeed or fail in any customer engagement if I take a look at it via the lens of, “where’s the customer in their decision-making journey?”

Michael Webb: There we go, yeah.

Bob Apollo: And what have we executed to facilitate that decision-making journey?

Michael Webb: Right.

Bob Apollo: And that is at odds with many typical approaches to gross sales management, which are typically sales exercise or gross sales stage based mostly. It’s additionally contrary to what you sometimes get in the event you opened up the digital field of a CRM answer and looked at how it has been initially configured.

Michael Webb: I’m working with a shopper, proper now, and that’s one of their elementary complaints, is that the best way that they’re managing gross sales right now’s all about activities.

Bob Apollo: Yep.

Michael Webb: And so one of the sales managers type of, surreptitiously, pulled some info from the database and made an evaluation that the individuals who have been the perfect at hitting those activity targets have been, sometimes, not those who are the perfect at attaining the income objectives, and buyer satisfaction objectives, and so forth.

Bob Apollo: Nicely, and I feel one of the potential challenges is if the metrics are largely quantity based mostly and will not be high quality based mostly.

Michael Webb: Exactly.

Bob Apollo: If by “quality”, you mean play an actual position in advancing the buying choice process, you then’re completely proper. And actually, I feel it is a vital failure in many organisations that they consider activity as basically a question of amount and never of high quality.

Michael Webb: And so I’ve typically observed that within a B2B firm, it’s very common for nearly nobody to actually understand how gross sales are made. Have you ever seen that too?

Bob Apollo: Perhaps I’m lucky in that the shoppers I work with are somewhat extra enlightened than the typical. You mean outdoors of the sales administration workforce?

Michael Webb: Yeah. Outdoors of sales management and the remaining of the corporate. They don’t understand.

Bob Apollo: No, I feel that may be a bit of a problem and it’s truly a good broader drawback than that. As a result of, of course, many of the shoppers I work with are in a scale-up or progress part, they usually’re on the lookout for exterior progress funding.

One of my observations is that while the exterior buyers are sometimes extremely experienced in relation to monetary due diligence, but they are very often blindsided by what I’d characterise as “sales effectiveness” or “sales scalability” issues.

Michael Webb: Tell me extra.

Bob Apollo: Nicely the financial due diligence measures are comparatively straightforward to determine. But when I’m interested by investing in an apparently promising enterprise, then half of my investment hypothesis – whether I declare it brazenly or not – is my perception that the financial assets I inject can be invested in growing capability in well-identified elements of the sales process which have the effect of driving revenue and profit.

And sadly the influx of new investment typically leads to a spherical of hiring of new salespeople and not using a proven framework to induct them in. And those new salespeople are thrown right into a context that they don’t actually understand.

Michael Webb: Proper.

Bob Apollo: But in addition the organisation recruiting them doesn’t properly understand. To allow them to’t give them the type of steerage that might permit an in any other case properly qualified new salesperson to turn out to be efficient something like as shortly as they could possibly be.

Michael Webb: Nicely, and there’s much more. I’m reminded of a ebook, an previous e-book, Managing Main Sales by Neil Rackham and Richard Ruff.

Bob Apollo: Yeah.

Michael Webb: From the 1990s or one thing. But there’s a narrative that Neil Rackham talks about in there of an organization that was struggling to develop, in order that they hired a new sales manager. And when the sales supervisor observed that the salespeople have been only making like two calls per day, instantly issued the edict, “Well you guys have to triple that. We need sales people making way more calls per day.”

Bob Apollo: Right.

Michael Webb: And there have been objections, and there was resistance and, finally, there was turnover, and there have been clients leaving, and it didn’t work at all. Because that gross sales manager had in his thoughts a unique business the place he had grown up, and the best way to achieve that business was larger call quantity activity.

Bob Apollo: Positive.

Michael Webb: And no one actually might articulate the qualities that would inform you whether a salesperson was doing an excellent job or a customer was actually a very good prospect.

Bob Apollo: And it’s more about outcomes achieved than activities completed. However that takes a slightly totally different mindset – if I’d recommend a considerably extra refined mindset. As a result of it’s pretty handy, isn’t it, to only assume in terms of an simply measurable exercise. However of course the aim of any activity within the gross sales course of – I might recommend – is to realize a desired end result. And that’s really where the main target must be.

Michael Webb: And the result, finally, some individuals assume the result is a sale. But I heard you say something that more superior corporations, and I agree with this, I feel you’re saying that the result is a buyer who’s more profitable as a result of of you. As a result of that method, they’re reference-able, they usually’ll be loyal.

Bob Apollo: Positive, that’s one version of a long run consequence, however I’d also recommend to you that the brief term end result may be the recognition, sooner slightly than later, that the chance you’re pursuing is definitely unlikely to achieve success both for you or for the client. And so one of the desirable outcomes is the willingness to walk away from dangerous enterprise, or dangerous potential enterprise.

Michael Webb: Proper, right, to have the ability to determine it-

Bob Apollo: Yeah.

Michael Webb: And then to have the license to stroll away from it. That may be troublesome for these organisations to get used to.

Bob Apollo: Nicely and to your point about knowledge, again, we’ve discussed why activity levels aren’t necessarily notably good metrics in the event that they’re out of context. Uncooked pipeline worth isn’t a very good measure. And actually, what I’ve observed is these organisations who’ve an obsession about constructing pipeline worth with out proper regard for the quality of the pipeline, fairly often they create an setting where salespeople are discouraged from qualifying out dangerous opportunities. And that’s a very dysfunctional means of operating a sales organisation.

Michael Webb: Yeah, absolutely. So your point is that we’ve got to have the ability to determine quality?

Bob Apollo: Yep.

Michael Webb: How can we do this?

Bob Apollo: I’m positive some examples could be useful. I work with many purchasers who are pioneering new market segments or trying to type of re-engineer present markets.

And it takes a certain sort of potential customer to be open to that kind of thing. A buyer that is open to innovation, has a monitor document of buying greatest of breed options, quite than all the time falling again on the protected established brands.

And you won’t have the ability to decide that simply by taking a look at LinkedIn. You may get some inkling of it within the annual report, but you actually make that judgment in consequence of having knowledgeable conversations with the client – but of course that you must know what to ask.

Michael Webb: And so how have you learnt if a salesman is doing an excellent job?

Bob Apollo: You’ll want to begin by understanding what outcomes those salespeople are anticipated accomplish. And that will depend on how you’re measuring the result. It’s much simpler to try this in an surroundings the place you have got carried out qualification criteria that the salespeople buy into and see value in, the place you’ve carried out a pipeline definition that displays with affordable accuracy where the client is of their shopping for journey.

In my expertise, the distinction between success and failure can typically be present in no more than a handful of key things that have to be completed through the gross sales process – and maybe crucial to these is the invention and qualification train.

I feel when you’re a gross sales chief you’d need to fulfill your self that your salesperson had executed their due diligence and discovery before deciding to aggressively invest the corporate’s assets in pursuing the chance.

Michael Webb: Okay. So once we have been talking earlier than, you made some factors I assumed have been actually fairly valid that the history of CRMs that started off, unfortunately-

Bob Apollo: Yep.

Michael Webb: As being type of administration oriented. And from what you stated, I was taking it to additionally mean that that included gathering knowledge and storing the info, if I’m not mistaken.

Bob Apollo: Yeah, by the best way, I don’t need any of this to suggest that I’m anti-data. I simply assume that many of the preliminary CRM techniques didn’t truly gather notably helpful knowledge.

Michael Webb: Right, yeah so I’m in agreement with you there. And then you definitely additionally stated that fairly than have a knowledge orientation, you stated it’s simpler to have a behaviour orientation-

Bob Apollo: Properly then-

Michael Webb: And convey it again into the info. So explain right here what your philosophy is.

Bob Apollo: Properly, behaviour or course of. So as per our earlier interview, I’ve received a barely ambivalent angle to how individuals use the phrase ‘process’. But when you have a data-centric strategy to CRM you are likely to assume that it’s all about what’s within the exercise document, what’s in the contact document, what’s in the account report and so forth.

Whereas I feel for those who take a behavioural or course of orientation, your main concern is how can we information salespeople into doing things which might be more likely to end in priceless outcomes, and what knowledge do we have to help them of their mission to generate invaluable outcomes? So that you’re variety of reversing it in a approach. The knowledge needs to be supportive of the outcomes that you simply’ve recognised you need to accomplish.

Michael Webb: Right, and so how have you learnt those things? How have you learnt that sure behaviours will create the outcomes that you want?

Bob Apollo: Nicely in the event you’ve chosen to instrument no matter CRM you’ve chosen in a means that lets you gather the info you will, of course, give you the option construct up increasingly helpful analysis of the underlying patterns of success and failure.

But before you’ve gotten that knowledge built up, one of the really illuminating workouts is to conduct proper unbiased win/loss evaluation that doesn’t just think about why did we win or lose.

That’s an end-of-sales cycle perspective, but I’m rather more concerned about what have been the key levels the customer went by way of in their decision-making journey, and how properly we managed to facilitate it. What the place the moments of fact and the moments of frustration, and what can we do consequently of that studying to encourage extra of the best behaviours on the half of the salesperson?

Michael Webb: Right can you set a concrete example of that? Are you able to inform us a few state of affairs that’s easy sufficient nevertheless it’s real?

Bob Apollo: I’ve been enterprise an train with one of my shoppers. We needed to determine the patterns of success and failure. They’re a extremely revolutionary software vendor, and one of the hidden patterns was that they have been much more successful in promoting to clients that had a “best of breed approach” to implementing options, than they have been into more conservative clients that all the time tended to stay with the large established manufacturers.

Michael Webb: Is that an remark, or is that a judgment, or how have you learnt that?

Bob Apollo: Once we have been conducting the loss analysis very often the champions of the venture would say, “we hadn’t anticipated that our corporate strategy was going to come down so hard in favour of the established vendors.” That insight can then permit us to make it possible for we ask the suitable query about how potential new clients have made previous selections.

Michael Webb: Good. Okay. All right, so hold going.

Bob Apollo: I feel the other clear pattern was that the salespeople who have been more profitable have been those that had the arrogance to actually keep on with the invention process for significantly longer than the more boisterous colleagues who would rush to pitch the answer too early.

Michael Webb: Yeah.

Bob Apollo: And that was a pivotal remark. Investing in discovery improves the probabilities of success and allows salespeople to qualify dangerous offers out early. Suggestion number one was to target early-adopter organisations who’re predisposed to purchase your type of answer out of your type of firm. Suggestion quantity two was to focus first degree gross sales leaders on insisting that their salespeople actually do deep discovery.

And when those sales leaders have been conducting opportunity evaluations, they insisted that their salespeople didn’t simply make hopeful assumptions a few deal however certified effectively based mostly on proof. We distilled that into a handful of formalised qualification criteria.

Michael Webb: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Bob Apollo: We also insisted that the sales individuals utilized easy and clearly-defined “green-amber-red” criteria for each qualification issue. We inspired them to acknowledge what they didn’t know, and to take steps to fill within the blanks of their information. And – this was essential – we requested them to return with a easy one-line rationalization of how they got here to their conclusion.

We additionally positioned the exercise as being for their profit, and never ours. We defined that our main aim was to ensure that they considered every alternative in the appropriate method, and to ensure that they didn’t miss anything they might have recognized or carried out that may have improved their possibilities of success.

Michael Webb: Yeah, and something that’s what’s in it for the salesperson?

Bob Apollo: Yeah. My basic observations are CRM tasks are rather more profitable when the organisation implementing them whole-heartedly includes the salespeople in their definition, in their rollout and of their subsequent refinement. If these techniques are imposed centrally, the probabilities of success are very considerably decreased.

Michael Webb: Okay, so is there extra … You had stated to me, “It’s easier to start with a behavioural mindset-”

Bob Apollo: Yeah.

Michael Webb: After which take a look at what knowledge is required to vary behaviours.”

Bob Apollo: Or to measure the ideas. I feel it is determined by how we’re defining behaviour. If by behaviour we imply issues that salespeople should know and do, then we will set up knowledge which helps us recognise patterns of efficient and ineffective efficiency.

But behaviours are additionally about mindset, and it really helps when you’ve acquired a bunch of salespeople who’ve received the fitting mindsets to start out with. If you make new hires, your focus have to be about angle and aptitude and potential capability, and never just concerning the past experience that they claim to deliver to the celebration.

Michael Webb: Yeah, one fellow I talked with a couple of years ago had a good way to seize that. He stated, “Some organisations try to hire salespeople and expect them to prove how good they are. But better sales organisations hire salespeople and then expect them to improve how good they are.”

Bob Apollo: Nicely, yeah-

Michael Webb: Difference in mindset there.

Bob Apollo: And I feel you’ve truly implied a very, very elementary point here. Because in our discussions, we’d have been implying that it’s the organisation for whom the salesperson works that sort of bears the brunt of sales effectiveness initiatives.

However I feel actually what we’re in search of is to recruit a group of gross sales people who find themselves ready to collaborate with each other and usually are not simply targeted on their private success.

We have to look for salespeople who have accepted a personal duty for self-improvement – who are curious, who learn gross sales books, who attend occasions, who would never ever get to some extent the place they either assume or suggest that they’ve discovered all of it.

People who are nonetheless seeing themselves on an upward learning trajectory. I feel that’s just so, so necessary and it’s extraordinarily harmful if either accidentally or design we end up recruiting individuals who have peaked, who haven’t any further to go-

Michael Webb: Right.

Bob Apollo: In terms of their want, or their willingness, or their means to improve themselves.

Michael Webb: Okay so type of a wrap-up query here then. On this context, which I feel has been fascinating and very well-articulated, this position of CRM software program, one thing has modified from the early years to now.

Bob Apollo: Yeah.

Michael Webb: What is it that the CRM software allows you to try this you couldn’t do before?

Bob Apollo: Nicely, of course, it’s a must to select the proper platform. And I might recommend for anybody who’s taking a look at CRM in the present day, to look for a platform (like Membrain) that recognises the significance of guiding the fitting behaviours in the salespeople.

What we will do at present – a method that was exhausting to realize earlier than – is to incorporate situational steerage in our CRM. For instance, if I’m promoting into finance, how can I be outfitted to have really constructive conversations with finance corporations at this stage in the process?

One of the issues that a actually efficient CRM system can do is to information the salespeople in amassed greatest apply – and of course is evolving on a regular basis. One of the issues one of my shoppers does is recurrently run periods with their salespeople saying, “So what are the new objections you’re hearing.” After which we role-play them, so that everybody in the sales organisation may be uncovered to, “So how could I deal with this?” In order that’s one factor.

I feel the opposite thing to search for – whether or not it’s built-in instantly into the CRM or whether it’s a third-party specialist add on – is that each one of the CRM knowledge is exposed and could be seen and acted upon by way of an easy-to-use sales analytics perform that identifies opportunities for enchancment. There’s a bunch of different things but-

Michael Webb: Yeah.

Bob Apollo: I might recommend that those two are notably essential.

Michael Webb: I keep in mind a lengthy dialog I had, pardon me, with a product manager of a … let’s put it this manner, the most important, if not one of the most important, CRM software corporations, and admitted to me on the telephone that his system out of the box shouldn’t be succesful of calculating or tracking the conversion charges that really take place-

Bob Apollo: Right.

Michael Webb: From stage one, to stage two, to stage three, stage four. However it does so many other good things, it’s a very, actually good system. And I’m considering to myself, “Oh my God, oh my God.”

Bob Apollo: Nicely that did a pair of issues, though. One, it opened the door to third-party analytics vendors, and I know the company you’re considering of. And one of its virtues, truly, is if you realize the place to look, you will discover all of that info.

Michael Webb: It simply costs additional, proper? Additional to tug that info out, and customise this system, and put add-ons.

Bob Apollo: Yeah.

Michael Webb: And all that.

Bob Apollo: So at the very least they opened the door to a bunch of third-party analytics vendors who just do an impressive job of serving to sales leaders to detect patterns.

And it additionally opened the door for a new era of CRM options that if that they had constructed across the concept of guiding and analysing sales performance and which embedded analytics on the core of what they do.

Michael Webb: Right, that’s right. And the reality is, these techniques have been built to fulfil the necessity perceived by the managements of the time.

Bob Apollo: Yeah.

Michael Webb: And it’s a disgrace, but most managements don’t understand how you should use knowledge to vary and improve the sales process; they assume it’s about extra exercise, better salespeople, work more durable, more proposals. And so long as senior leaders assume that’s simply the best way it is in gross sales, there’s not going to be a lot demand.

Bob Apollo: Properly-

Michael Webb: In enhancing it.

Bob Apollo: Quaint behaviours should exist amongst a sure proportion of the sales management population. However I have a tendency not to come across them, because anyone who seems to be at my philosophy and buys into it by definition matches into the more enlightened class.

There are a growing group of sales leaders who’ve already recognised the worth of knowledge. The whole lot from very simple things like time in stage, conversion by stage, how these issues differ between internet new enterprise, and installed base, and up-sells, and recognising you can’t apply a one measurement matches all. I’m inspired. I consider even if they’re but not in the majority, there’s a rising group of sales leaders who’re turning into much more knowledge literate.

Michael Webb: Sure, I agree with you. So Bob, as soon as once more, nice conversation. Thanks very a lot for agreeing to be on the podcast and speaking so brazenly, and in putting up with my type of analytical questions; I respect it. If someone within the viewers needs to study extra about you, how do they discover you?

Bob Apollo: Properly I definitely hope they do. And in the event that they choose to need to find out more, you will discover me on my web site at www.inflexion-point.com. I’d encourage guests to try a couple of areas particularly. One of the apparent ones is the weblog, and I’ve acquired additionally what I hope they may discover a helpful assets space, the place there’s a number of videos downloads, and so on., that I hope they’ll find informative and perhaps even stimulating.

Michael Webb: Super, nicely thanks very much, we’ll have to do this once more soon.

Bob Apollo: I look ahead to it.